Showing posts with label Bhartiya Nari. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Bhartiya Nari. Show all posts

Monday, May 25, 2015

0

You will "Grow into" Your Partner and Your Marriage

One advantage of being in an Indian marriage (arranged) mindset is that there is no such thing as soulmates. I don't believe in soulmates, and I think that is just the one thing that the West's ideas of love and marriage have gotten wrong. I think that instead of soulmates, there are many people that you can be compatible with and live your life with, some more compatible than others.
 
However, one disadvantage of not believing in soulmates is that your parents think you can just settle with anyone, even if you don't love them. Isn't that what the whole idea of arranged marriage is about? That you find a girl or boy, ask them a few questions, and if your values/beliefs match, then there is no need to sweat the small stuff, such as likes and dislikes. There is some truth to this, but at the same time you have to be similar enough where you can understand each other.

One good analogy for this is niceness. Most people are nice, that is a fact, or maybe something I choose to believe in. Also, most people want a partner who is also nice. With that logic, people would be compatible with almost everyone they meet, however we know that's not the case. There has to be that something that makes you feel like you click on a different level than you click with most people you meet.

But it seems that Indian parents vehemently want to believe in this logic. When they find someone your age with the same mindsets as them, they think that at first you won't mix but "theere theere love ho jayega". They think if you live with someone for a long time, love will automatically form. That is why in their main criteria, they look for how much money a boy earns and if he is from a "respectable" family, or how educated, religious and homely a girl is, instead of looking at how they fit with their child.

That is why if there is a very eligible bachelor in town, and all the girls' families want him, girls are told that they would be lucky to have him, even if they have nothing in common and radically different ideas. It is almost like the guy/girl has to make the parents' checklist before making it into the child's checklist, even though it is the child that has to spend their life with that person.

If a marriage isn't working out, then elders tell the couple it will 'take some time' and to 'adjust'. And the girl is especially supposed to mold herself seamlessly into her husband's family. You are told you will "grow into" the marriage. But does that really happen?

That's why the comment below from this thread on Reddit really stuck me (especially the underlined part).
It depends. If the girl is from the same mindset as your parents(traditional, religious), you probably won't 'grow into it' because the two of you are so ideologically different.
Your parents probably don't understand the complete situation from your point of view. They probably think you just have a few different lifestyle choices and tastes, and it's a passing phase which you will grow out of, but both you and I know it's more than that.
If you are really lucky, your parents will find a girl with a similar mindset as yours. But otherwise, you will not settle down with a girl who is radically different from you.

Wednesday, January 21, 2015

7

Shaadi.com Experiment Update



SHAADI.COM EXPERIMENT
BY R. SHUKLA

INTRODUCTION AND WHY I AM DOING THIS EXPERIMENT
................................................................................................................

Purpose:        I am really curious about the Indian male mentality and how egalitarian it has actually become, especially with educated* (supposedly "enlightened")  men who have access to the Internet.  The purpose of this experiment is to figure out if guys really want what they say they want. In the 21st century, most women are independent and working and have confidence in themselves.  Many men, even Indian/NRI men say they want an independent and equal partner, but do they really? Let's see how many men actually want an equal.....and how many are just paying lip service. In Payal's profile, we see she has no other interests besides wanting to be a stay at home wife. Basically, she wants to live for her man. She doesn't seem interested in intellectual pursuits like politics and current events. She is sexy, but not sexual (not even kissed a boy!) She is pure and still a virgin.  Actually most of Payal's profile information comes from this blog where there is a poem like this: 

" Karyeshu Dasi, Karaneshu Manthri,
  Bhojeshu Mata, Shayaneshu Rambha,
  Roopeshu Lakshmi, Kshamayeshu Dharitri,
  Satkarma Nari, Kuladharma Patni "



 Line for line, it means : 
"Works hard (as a slave) , Gives smart advice (like a minister),
Feeds and cares (like a mother) , Is a sex-goddess in bed (like the apsara Rambha) ,
Is beautiful (like goddess lakshmi), Is forgiving (like mother earth),
These are the ideal qualities (and duties) of a wife "


......................................................................................

Comments from the OP

"So, to be an ideal indian wife, all i have to do, is be a mom in the kitchen, a slut in the bedroom, a maid in the living room, all while looking like a bombshell, and not to mention, forgive any of his 'little' slipups, like ohhh, I don't know...forgetting our anniversary !!! or leaving his underwear on the bathroom floor !!! (which he really has done today...yikesss), ok....thanks, got it, check...Now that I know all this, what's stopping me from being an ideal wife.....ohh, I know, my BRAIN !!! I mean , come on here, I don't know whether to be mad or amused, it's ridiculous to the point of hilarity .

"Also, please note that there is no such verse for the ideal husband, because logically, the guy could be any schmuck out there, but since he's married to the ideal wife, he isn't required to be any more than a schmuck." 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I fully agree with the author of the original blog post that I got the poem from. It is so ridiculous it is hilarious. No woman- no HUMAN would be like this. Essentially, she doesn't have a personality. She is a living blow up doll.  Her lifelong dream is to get married. You would think that men would know there are no women like this, because *newsflash* women are breathing, living creatures with ideas, personalities and thoughts of their own. Yet it is sad that men think women like this exist, and moreover, they prefer a woman like this. 


...................................................................................................


     I'll include an obligatory profile picture: (not of me obviously)


        HYPOTHESIS: I'd like to think that most people would be able to say that this is a fake post, but sadly most people will think that a person like this actually exists in our patriarchal society.

*Drumroll* Ladies and Gentlement, meet.........

Payal Rohand
View Photo Album of SH43160553

"BIODATA": 


  • 24 / 5' 8"
  • Never Married
  • Self
  • Hindu, Brahmin
  • Rhinelander
  • Gujarati













    • I am a model. Grew up in the US, loves fashion and beauty. Independent and modern but simple homely indian girl on inside. I also believe in husband as head of household (or pati parmeshvar hai) and I am pro-men, anti-feminist. I am a party girl now but willing to quit, and also quit eating non veg and drinking. I am a virgin, never even kissed a boy so I am innocent. Also I am religious and do fastings. Prefer to stay at in law's home and be housewife after marriage.I know how to cook well. Looking for indian gentlemen who knows how to treat a lady and is also dominant and strong enough to be the leader in relationship and so I have respect for him. Need to have "aankhon ki sharam" for him. I will work hard to be a good wife and will keep looking beautiful. I will treat you as a treasure. I will also support and advise you in troubles and am very patient and forgiving. Looks/Height/Caste no bar...tell me why you think you are good for me.

          RESULTS: 




  • I have 596 invitations (currently) and over 250,000 potential matches. It is safe to say I am in demand. Most of them were easy to decline because they sent an automated response. I only wanted the ones that bothered to send a personal message, but only a few sent a personal message Also I got 9 requests for phone numbers and 2 given to me. When I was on there, about 30 people messaged me on chat.  In some profiles, the parents said they were interested in me for their son, I found it funny that the son couldn't do it himself. You would think that only people in India would think like this, but there were some NRI's who still did this. Actually, most of the guys who were in India made their profiles by themselves while more NRI's did the parent/relative/brother thing. 

    Maybe the reason is that NRI guys are not really looking for marriage in their 20's, while in India since it is a sexually repressed society, these guys jump on the marriage train as soon as they come of age, whether they are mature for it or not, because marriage is the only way for socially approved sex. Also, the Bollywood movies play a huge part in what the Indian guys think *romance* is like and what women want. 

    Another interesting thing was that even though I said Looks/Caste/Height no bar, I was very specific about religion. Still, I got invitations from Christian, Jain, Sikh and other nationalities also. Maybe they thought that I would gladly agree to convert. 

    Now let's get to the good part: 
    (My comments are in regular font and theirs are bolded and italicized.)
    ...............................................................................................................












    • Hello, We have liked your profile and believe it to be good Match. If you like our son's profile, kindly accept this Invitation. We can then pursue this further on ph: Phone Number Visible on Accept or through email:Email Id Visible on Accept Warm Regards,_______


      One family made it a bonding activity...
      Hi, I and my son have liked your profile and believe it to be good Match. 


       Here are the personal email responses (out of the 596 currently): 

      One man in his profile just cut to the basics and stated his salary, it really justified my hypothesis that marriage in India is a "business transaction" and that is what guys think girls want (exchange beauty/domesticity for wealth). 
      Hi, I am__________ from ahmedabad.I am in accounting field earning 12000.00/per month & have rental income of 7000.00 to 8000.00.we have two members in my family. My mother & me.My father passed away & i have a one sister who is married.I have a simple attitude no bad habits like drinking & smoking. I am big fan of shahrukh khan & love to wear different types of aviators. i likes cricket & music. I trying to find a loyal & honest life partner. Friendship is important in longlife relationship, so my better half will be my best friend whom in can interact easily as well as share my thoughts without hasitating.


      One guy complimented me on my "Indian Values" and said finding a girl like me was rare...I don't see how that's a good thing. 

      Hi, My name is A I I really liked your profile. I love how you have retained your values so well, which is rare to find even in girls from India. I am also a understanding, caring and supportive person. I also love my indian culture and respect my heritage. I do not have any extraordinary expectations from my ideal partner. I like simplicity. I may not be a model, but I am very honest and will give it my all to keep my partner happy. Well if you are interested in my profile then we can chat further. A.


      He thinks I have *beautiful thoughts* code for...I like that you're a doormat. Also felt the need to put USA in parenthesis (LOOK I'M FROM THE US!)
      Hi Payal. Enjoyed reading what you wrote. More than a beautiful face I see beautiful thoughts. Would like to get to know you better. Hope to hear back from you. R.(USA)



      Only one thing to say...........wow....cheesy or what?
      Hi, i liked your profile description. You look like my dream wife. (So pretty much sums up what Indian guys in India at least, want in a wife). I am good for you because i can promise you that you close your eyes and start your journey of life with me and you will never ever open your eyes .you will live in your dreams. N

      This guy actually took the time to read the profile...
      you really think you can live in india? your profile kinda sparked my curiosity so to speak.hope to hear from you

      This guy really fell in love with the provider/dominant man fantasy...The last sentence is just LOL.
      Coz -i will be the provider for the family -Honest guy like an open book.there is no other side in me -Going to take care of you -Started to work out recently.so may take some time :)


      One guy unabashedly put a picture of him with a doctor's coat and stethoscope.  He might as well have said he's looking for gold diggers. 

      Now this next guy was weird. First sentence was that he is an engineer. Didn't mention anything about himself but gave his whole family tree....I guess he wanted to prove that he was not "backwards" because he had connections in Pardes? 
      hi miss, i am an engineer in india and my brother lives in new york and is married and works for national brock lab of new york as an engineer and my sister is a nurse and lives in new york as well and is married and rest of family lives in calgary canada. one of my sister lives in calgary and owns her house and is unmarried and other one is married and lives in edmonton  and my mama g (LOL Mama G) is a very reputed property consultant and lives in calgary. 


      One guy just jumped into asking what my fav movie was..
      hi, how are you?I'm A.So what's your favorite movie?


      This guy understood that friendship comes before romance...
       My name is R frm India. I like your profile , First , I would like to friendship (the cliche fraandship LOL) with you

      Why would you not read someone's profile? It's there for a reason. 
      You seem like a nice person , I would love to get to know you . I like to figure people out gradually rather than reading profiles and see where it goes.let me know if you really want to go ahead.


      Cheese......so much cheese (This guy is in the US but you can tell he's from India because no guy raised here talks like this...)
      Hi, How you doing ? I saw your profile and thought of saying Hi. hoping the Hi will lead to a wonderful conversation :) If you feel the same, Lets Connect.! 


      This was kind of nice...(again, from US but you can tell the difference he's been raised here, compared to the previous guy.It's more likely the previous guy came here for a working or study visa. 
      Hey! You sound like an awesome person. I'd love the opportunity to get to know you :)


      This one was like, "Yeah, so I just want to tell you *casually* that I'm in med school..nothing about interests or anything else". It says a lot about what Indian guys (even NRI guys--you would assume this guy is more egalitarian)  think potential Indian girls are interested in. 
      Hi How are you? So my name is ______said like an american haha. I was born in London but my family moved to the US when I was 11. I am about to finish med school in Philadelphia and might be moving for a emergency med residency. Let me know if you wanted to connect :) If not good luck! 

      hey, first I want to know whr u wanna stay after marriage ?India or USA? I am looking for understanding, loving, who respects my parents and treats them as her own parents after marriage and stands by me in every situation of life. we belong to middle class family but having bright future so economically no need to worry in my home. and I like whatever u wrote frankly in Ur profile and I m impressed by it. if u reject my profile then also no issue , but at least I request u to tell me the reason. thanks ______(The only thing I have to say about this is see IHM's post on this:  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Only a few got the idea...(or knew that a girl like this cannot exist). 
      this is a joke. right? I don't know anyone who would say 'pro-men' lol you're nuts if you really are looking for what you say you are

      Haha.is this a joke ;)


      Hey!! Your profile looks so unreal haha Seems too true man Haha but none the less we can talk and see where it goes?

      And this guy was really sweet..but maybe it was part of his plan since he knew other guys wouldn't act like this and he wanted to be the special snowflake who actually *cared*.  Didn't even want to connect, just wanted to give me advice so that counts for something. But maybe on the other hand he thinks he can spark a conversation.  
      Why is your profile like this. You're intelligent and smart. (How is Payal smart and intelligent if she only finished high school? Something is fishy.) Forget about all that. Don't give up on your dreams to become the housewife types for the purpose of appealing to the society or the home. Be yourself and love what you do and find someone who can respect you for that.

      Charts








      CONCLUSION:
        The conclusions of this study are that although India touts gender equality through its "Westernized" movies and media in an effort to become more modern, the majority of men in India only do lip service to this idea. In fact, most educated men (educated meaning speaking good English and having access to a computer) want and appreciate a woman like Payal, who is molded on the regressive gender ideals of centuries past. The implications of this study are that there is still a lot of work to be done in terms of gender equality. Considering that arranged marriages are the single most popular way young Indians get married, it is important that gender equality progresses in the Indian marriage market. Also, we need to get Indian men to WANT to have equal wives and not be so impressionable by mostly misogynistic Indian movies that now feature the paradox of women being modern and stylish on the outside but still having "traditional" values. Or, the fact that she should be "cool" and not homely on the outside, but have homely values on the inside.
         
        I also did an experiment with a darker woman named "Laila Rohan" who was the antithesis of Payal- a feminist who wanted an equal partner and said up front that she would not be the more passive partner. Surprisingly, Laila also had suitors, although not as many as Payal. I think that all woman, as long as they have a vagina, will get suitors on this website. I found that Laila's suitors were also more attractive, although that is just my subjective opinion. This might be because the parents of those suitors found each other physically attractive and were in more of a love marriage, while people who were less attractive were found partners through the rigid arranged marriage, which is more orthodox. So the children of the orthodox parents grew up wanting a woman like Payal whereas the more liberal (attractive) children find Laila more attractive. At least that is my theory. What I found interesting was that a lot of parents were interested in Laila for their son, while more "self" created profiles were interested in Payal. This was interesting to me as you would think a potential Indian MIL would want a submissive DIL. But maybe secretly they wanted a strong and capable partner for their son. Any thoughts to why this is? 
         
        I was saddened by these results, I guess I used to think that only people of older generations like my parents and grandparents thought this way but it is scary to see that the current generation is like this too. I will post a more "polished" analysis as I think of it. But what are YOUR thoughts on this?
  • Wednesday, December 31, 2014

    0

    On Sexualization of Indian Culture in America; How Non-Indian Men View Me



    I know I have talked a lot about issues regarding India, but my blog is "Indian-AMERICAN Feminist" so I guess I should add some issues that are relevant to the average ABCD (American Born Confused Desi). 

    Oftentimes I feel very conflicted when usually white people say they love something about my culture, especially men. I think that there is a stereotype that Asian women are very submissive and docile and I don't think that's true. I found this text and thought it would fit in well with this post: 




    To start off, this is absolutely disgusting. If something like this happened to me, I would start feeling like a sex object every time I put on a "dimond". I think that there is a problem with sexualizing Indian culture and Indian women by non-Indian men. 
    I feel conflicted because I do think I am mostly "white" on the inside, but having someone reiterate and call attention to my culture, and specifically in a sexual way, unnerves me and makes me uncomfortable. I hate that for some men, I am a fetish and what makes it worse is that I am the typical short Asian with a baby face and shy. They don't like me for me, they like me because they want me to embody the stereotype. 

    And yet it is ironic that in my own home, I am desexualized. The Indian-American culture is remarkably similar to the Indian culture, perhaps even more regressive because parents are stuck in the mindset of what India was like 10,15,20 years ago. There is a post on FemWire about this, here is a specific part: 

    The concepts of good and bad within Indian society, particularly when it comes to women and girls, are built around virtue. Ahem, chastity. This is widely known to be the case in India itself, where women’s lives and choices are largely restricted and controlled supposedly for their own safety. But in reality, these protections are meant to hinder their sexual freedom, not ensure their overall wellbeing. Similarly, the Indian American community and its values are not far off from this culture. The women are expected to be, and are viewed as, virginal and sexually submissive. The silence around female sexuality – everything from the onset of puberty to reproductive health to attitudes about sexual activity – is common in Indian American homes. And then young people take this with them into their personal and social lives, carrying stigmas about sex and judgment for those who break the rules. In this way, I was able to make the connection, even if only in the periphery of my adolescent mind, about what it was about me that was wrong. The curves of my face, my boisterous personality – versus many other Indian girls’ reserved studiousness – and my avid obsession with making mix tapes off of Hot 97: to other Indians, these things indicated something unrespectable and, indirectly, sexual about me. And it was like a stain that spread over the years.

    Women of color were mostly unseen as partner options. And if we landed in the purview somehow, it was, at best, to be mentioned as perhaps pretty and then quickly dismissed (you know, the “Wow, you’re pretty for an Indian girl” line) or, at worst, to be ridiculed for our ugliness. This may sound extreme, but it’s the reality I lived. I undoubtedly stood out in this context – ashy knees in the winter, unruly mane of thick, black hair in a sea of pale midriffs and near-ubiquitous gold or platinum highlights – but I was also invisible. And that external gaze is powerful: the invisibility desexualized me.

    After all these years, I’m single for the first time not in a collective setting of a school or university. I’ve finally come to see clearly the odd dichotomy I’ve been navigating of being seen as prudish and puerile and, alternately, overly sensual and almost dangerous because of the ways I step outside of that virtuous Indian woman trope, even if only in the way I speak, carry myself, and dress. I’ve found that I almost always worry that a guy is reading me in one of these two extreme ways. And I do an exhausting dance of guessing which one it is so I can counter it with the appropriate behavior. Only recently did it occur to me that this is not something I can control, that it’s not my fault. That realization in itself is helping me shut out the noise to slowly find the in-between – and with that, my authentic self.

    Sexuality does not originate from your body, but the possibility of strange men’s sexuality is constantly in your mind, policing what you wear and how you perceive yourself.

    What do you think about this topic? Any commentary or stories? Agree or disagree? Or how is it similar or different being a girl in India? 

    Works Cited: 

    Growing Up Brown: Desexualized and Hyper-sexualized by Zoya Haroon
    (http://feminspire.com/growing-up-brown-desexualized-and-hyper-sexualized/)

    Walking the Tightrope: Good Indian Girls, Race, and Bad Sexuality by Chaya Babu

    (http://thefeministwire.com/2013/05/walking-the-tightrope-good-indian-girls-race-and-bad-sexuality/)